The biological clock.
As we all know that men and women have different biology. A man’s biology may start slowing down a little younger than that of a woman, but goes on much longer.
Unfortunately a woman, who hasn’t started trying to have children yet, may slow down even quicker.
There was a book written on this subject if I remember it was called babies versus carrier. That being said, it is also note worthy that a man was given the mitzvah of ‘pru urevu’ where the woman wasn’t. Understandably the women still wants to have children let me quote a Gomorrah I need a stick for my old age & a spade for my [to dig] grave.
However somehow, some girls expect a Bochur around their age let us say early forties to marry them when they are in their early forties. The shadchan will dig up or cook up 10 stories where people had children that way, the girl will feel she could still have children, very often she could however the boy has a mitzvah that [he may not be mevatel] he must have children, and is still of age to have to do so, the girl may still be able but there is a doubt which may even prohibit the Bochur from getting married to the girl according to halacha.
Please understand it is no mitzvah to try and force the Bochur in to this type of shiduch if he objects, the fact that you have an idea does not make you a posek and even if you asked a shailoh. The Bochur has the right to ask his poskim & his doctors as to what is still considered childbearing, enough to have a boy & girl.
You will only build up the girl’s hope on the one hand & upset the Bochur on the other, and cause more harm than good.
May I suggest that a girl in this sad situation marry someone who has already fulfilled the requirements of Pru Urvu, and hope that she could still be zocheh to a stick for her old age.
That said, I feel a Bochur, who is not a Cohen may also be better off giving in on marrying someone who is on their second time, even with children, as they say two very unhappy people could make four very happy people. BTW a Cohen could still marry an almonoh.
Unfortunately a woman, who hasn’t started trying to have children yet, may slow down even quicker.
There was a book written on this subject if I remember it was called babies versus carrier. That being said, it is also note worthy that a man was given the mitzvah of ‘pru urevu’ where the woman wasn’t. Understandably the women still wants to have children let me quote a Gomorrah I need a stick for my old age & a spade for my [to dig] grave.
However somehow, some girls expect a Bochur around their age let us say early forties to marry them when they are in their early forties. The shadchan will dig up or cook up 10 stories where people had children that way, the girl will feel she could still have children, very often she could however the boy has a mitzvah that [he may not be mevatel] he must have children, and is still of age to have to do so, the girl may still be able but there is a doubt which may even prohibit the Bochur from getting married to the girl according to halacha.
Please understand it is no mitzvah to try and force the Bochur in to this type of shiduch if he objects, the fact that you have an idea does not make you a posek and even if you asked a shailoh. The Bochur has the right to ask his poskim & his doctors as to what is still considered childbearing, enough to have a boy & girl.
You will only build up the girl’s hope on the one hand & upset the Bochur on the other, and cause more harm than good.
May I suggest that a girl in this sad situation marry someone who has already fulfilled the requirements of Pru Urvu, and hope that she could still be zocheh to a stick for her old age.
That said, I feel a Bochur, who is not a Cohen may also be better off giving in on marrying someone who is on their second time, even with children, as they say two very unhappy people could make four very happy people. BTW a Cohen could still marry an almonoh.
posted by Shiduchim Crisis at 8:56 PM
8 Comments:
Of course the women could point out that a bochur in his early 40s has a better chance of marrying a woman in her late 30s or early 40s than marrying a younger one.
Is it better to attempt to fulfill pru urvu with an older woman than to not marry at all?
You are correct, but that is if it is possible & probable,but a girl in her early forties who never started only has a slim chance, because you need a couple of years in between children & year for the first, and a lot of Bitachon to get a boy & girl.
So take a girl with kids if you have too, & trade that for age.
You have a point that if the bochur is already fifty, he may be better of married than single, even if he couldn't have kids, but I think that needs to be addressed by a Posek.
Once you married the older girl your stuck & therefore if you are still early forties you should go for mid to late thirties, [even if she already has kids]or get a psak from someone like Reb Elyashuvon the max age, it may differ from one girl to another.
If it was that important for him to be makayem the mitzvah, he should have made it his business to get married earlier. I also know of men who were very makpid on going on with much younger women, married them and unfortunately didn't have children. It's an arrogant attitude - der mensh tracht und gut lacht etc.
Mr AnonymousYou are another example of those who believe the older singles chose to be so.
You also decided that you are a posek, & pasken that , bochurim over fourty are no longer obligated to be mekayem Pru Urvu.
Again they are already messed up by their own doing.
You also feel that they still have to get married, to what is being offered & suffer, even without the hope of getting any children.
I don't wish it on you, but it is obvious you had an easy time getting your shidduch & so did your children so far.
I hope you don't have to come to understand these issues through your own Tzorus, but sometimes that is the only devine lesson available to unthoughtful outspoken, uncalculated,idiots like you, who don't know the facts on the ground, before they make their judgments.
I published your comment to show that idiots like you are a dime a dozen, until it hits home.
"Again they are already messed up by their own doing.
You also feel that they still have to get married, to what is being offered & suffer"
"To what is being offered?" Are you talking about a wife or a horse? Is she less valuable as a person because she's older? Is it "suffering" to marry a good woman who is over 35?
Ahuva, don't pass judgement, "by their own doing". It is not so in my case & in many other cases.
More so who wants to marry a horse?
One wants a partner.
35 is not to old to have kids,but the last 2 girls I met who were that age. One could never answer, and was dreaming of a bochur of 19 a sweet little boy.
The next not only had that problem, [I will probably make a post on her case], but wanted promises & acceptance of responsibilities, to a large list of requirments from her husband, including a present from him valued at 200K.
I explained first you become freinds, then feel comfortable together then get maried, and after that sort things out the best way you could.
BTW she was offererring nothing in return for her list. I will try & post her problems in detail in another post.
I also believe that to be Mekayem Pru Urvu, may require taking a wife with kids, a little younger. BTW paying tuition & raising other kids in the yiddish way is from the best Seglos to get your own.
fyi - anonymous is not a man
i also know of many women over 35 and over 40 who were able to have healthy children
Mata Hari,
No body said they can't, however if you were allowed to learn Shulchan Aruch, what is at stake was there is for sure a great doubt, & a man has an obligation to have children [ A boy & agirl] allow a gap of two years, & the doubt gets even bigger.
So by all means a single in his upper fifties , may already have blown it & agree to the risk, & yes may be lucky.
However someone in the lower fourties according to many halachic authorities is not allowed to take that risk.
I hope you understand me now.
Go speak to the big fertility doctors for the rest of your research, Again I don't say it is impossible, but not so likly.
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